Sex Gets Real 288: Squirting and incontinence, men who don’t like sex, & large breasts

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tl;dr Abuse in polyamory. Can squirting cause incontinence? Are there men who don’t like sex? How to have sex with someone with large breasts?

This week’s episode is you and me and your emails. Before we get to that, a few announcements.

First, I am in two new books. You can find an essay I wrote almost 2 years ago in the recently released “Sex Positive Now” anthology and I have been turned into a comic character for Meg-John Barker’s soon to be released “Gender: A Graphic Guide”. Pre-order yours today!

This week, I am also bringing our attention to two articles about abuse in polyamory that I think offer important questions for us all to hold. The first is Inês Rôlo’s “I was in a polyamorous and abusive relationship for 7 years… here’s what I learned” which was followed by Eve Rickert’s “What I Got Wrong in More Than Two: The Dark Night of the Soul.”

We need to hold ourselves and each other accountable for the ways we are doing relationship, and unfortunately much of the mainstream polyamory/non-monogamy advice just doesn’t hold the nuance that’s needed for people who have trauma, who experience mental illness, and a whole host of other realities.

On to your questions!

First up, Cathryn wrote in with some really sweet messages about discovering the podcast.

Next, Sofia wrote in about squirting and incontinence. Can squirting lead to incontinence? I got input from several pelvic floor therapists, and though the answer is more complicated, the overall sense is yes, it can. We explore why in the episode.

Then, Jose asks, “Am I the only guy who doesn’t like sex?” But the thing is, Jose has a thriving sex life – with himself. It’s partnered sex he doesn’t care for, so we explore asexuality, masculinity myths, and why it’s perfectly normal and OK to prefer sex with yourself.

Finally, Breast Distress has a new partner who has large breasts. How can she become a better at sex with someone who has large breasts, especially when it’s something she’s never done before? In addition to what I share, I also recommend Allison Moon’s piece in Bustle from a few years ago about sexy breast play.

Also, huge thanks to Hemlock for their awesome song “Firelight” which was used in this episode between questions. I’m digging it!

Follow Dawn on Instagram.

About Host Dawn Serra:

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Episode Transcript

Dawn Serra: You’re listening to Sex Gets Real with Dawn Serra, that’s me. This is a place where we explore sex, bodies, and relationships, from a place of curiosity and inclusion. Tying the personal to the cultural where you’re just as likely to hear tender questions about shame and the complexities of love, as you are to hear experts challenging the dominant stories around pleasure, body politics, and liberation. This is about the big and the small, about sex and everything surrounding it we don’t usually name. The funny, the awkward, the imperfect happen here in service to joy, connection, healing, and creating healthier relationships with ourselves and each other. So, welcome to Sex Gets Real. Don’t forget to hit subscribe.

Hello to you and welcome to Sex Gets Real. I know I missed an episode last week and I hope you will forgive me. I really took this vacation of mine so seriously. For the past three weeks, I did, for the first time ever since being self-employed, virtually no work. I answered, I think, 3 emails total in 3 weeks. I did no writing. No real planning. I took that time to really focus on resting and nourishing myself. I read some awesome books, I did a bunch of puzzles, we watched several movies and cooked delicious food. I slowed way the fuck down. It was glorious and it gave me the space to start having all kinds of new ideas and new dreams. I started connecting new dots, which was so overdue. But I needed time and space to start feeling in to new places rather than just doing the daily grind that we are all used to.

Dawn Serra: Now it’s mid-December. We are just a few weeks away from the end of the decade. It’s going to be the 20’s again. Isn’t that bizarre? When I think of the ‘20s, I think of flappers and F. Scott Fitzgerald, and here we are 100 years later about to be in the ‘20s again. Anyway, this week’s episode is you and me and your emails. I can’t wait because there’s some really great ones for us to dive into. 

Speaking of emails, if you could use some support, if you are feeling stuck or unsure, if you’ve got a question, I’d love to hear from you. I have a contact form on my website, dawnserra.com, which is where the podcast lives now. You can email me either using your name and email or anonymously. I love hearing from all of you! It really truly is like a little present that I get to unwrap every single time I receive a new message. Because it’s the holidays or it’s about to be, I am going to be taking December 22nd and December 29th off for the holidays this year. I’ve got family coming in to town and I’m trying to maintain a little bit of this slowness, because 2020 is going to be completely fucking wild. I would love just a little more time to rest and recover and tend to myself, which means for the next 2 weeks I’m going to be airing some Explore More talks, which will be new to most of you and maybe an older episode of the show too. Then, new episodes will start back up on January 5th of 2020, which is weird to say. But, that’s me practicing self-care, which is something that we talk about a lot here on the show is boundaries and taking care of ourselves, and asking for support. And that’s what I’m doing. 

Dawn Serra: I also have two exciting announcements: I am in two new books! I have an essay in a new anthology that Jeremy Shub and Allena Gabosch, I think that’s how you say Allena’s last name, co-edited called “Sex Positive Now: An Anthology of Movers and Shakes in the World of Sexuality”. I think you can go to sexpositivenow.com to check out the book. There’s an ebook version and a print version. There’s 30 sex educators who all have essays in there and mine is one of them. So be sure to check that out. And, something I’m ridiculously excited about is Meg-John Barker’s new book, “Gender: A Graphic Guide” which is going to be released in the U.S. and Canada in January of 202 features me as a comic book character. I have been comic-ized. I’m talking about bodies and oppression. Meg-John saw something that I had written and really liked it so they included it in this new book along with a comic version of me saying it to you. Because it’s a graphic novel and it’s so damn cool. Everything Meg-John does I’m totally obsessed with. Please be sure to check both of those, especially “Gender: A Graphic Guide”. Meg-John also has another book called “Queer: A Graphic Guide” so if you haven’t checked that out, check it out too. I’ll have links to both of those things at dawnserra.com/ep288/ for episode 288, which is where we are today.

If you haven’t heard about it yet, there’s a new show on Showtime called “Work in Progress”. One reviewer wrote: “The Queerest Show on TV Is About a Suicidal Butch With OCD.” A friend of a friend is actually the creator and the star of it. And it looks so terrific – smart, timely, funny, more real than most television is around queer folks. If you’re looking for a new show – definitely check it out and report back. You can see it on Showtime and it’s called “Work in Progress”. I’m hoping to catch it actually over the holiday season and check it out myself. 

Dawn Serra: A few weeks ago, 2 articles came up in my feed that I saved, because I was not working and here we are. Because I wanted to share a little about them with you. I felt like they were really important. You can get the links to both of these articles I’m about to talk about at dawnserra.com/ep288/ if you want to check those out and I highly recommend it. So the first piece spawned the second piece. 

The first piece is a piece by Ines Rolo titled, “I was in a polyamorous and abusive relationship for 7 years… here’s what I learned”. I want to share a few excerpts from it for us to think about, but I really recommend reading the entire piece. It’s quite long and there’s a lot of really great information in it that I think all of us could use sitting with and investigating, and being curious around. But here’s a handful of bits from the piece.

Dawn Serra: Ines writes: “Love is no match for abuse. But love — or what we think love is — will keep us trapped in dangerous relationships. So, what does all of this have to do with being non-monogamous? It almost goes without saying that abusive and toxic relationships can take any shape. Abuse happens in any configuration. Talk of abuse in heterosexual monogamous relationships is more and more common these days, but we’re still far from approaching same-sex relationships and non-monogamies the same way. We all know it can happen in same-sex relationships. We all know it can happen anywhere and everywhere. We just don’t talk about it.”

Ines goes on: “He did what most abusers do. He never hit me, of course. He never overtly overpowered me. He was discreet and careful to the point of near perfection. He made me apologise for things I didn’t do, made me feel like most things that didn’t go well with us were my fault, created rules for the relationship that served him first and foremost, started complex conversations about our relationship that went on for hours to the point of (my) exhaustion, kept testing my limits and boundaries, didn’t always stop when I said no or otherwise conveyed my discomfort, used my intellectual work to improve his, co-opted my ideas to further his career, used up all my empathy because he didn’t have any, controlled who I dated and the progress of my relationships, hindered my chances with women I was interested in, relying on the fact that I was an introvert and using that to his advantage, used my reputation to protect his, used my general niceness to his favour (even, yes, to get closer to women who were close to me), relied on my emotional labour, manipulated conversations and situations to his interest, even took advantage of my housework chores and labour. ”

Dawn Serra: Another part reads: “It is my conviction that ethical non-monogamy and polyamory are not inherently abusive. Neither is being monogamous. But I noticed there are some things about polyamory and non-monogamy that might make it even more difficult to spot abusive behaviour. Those were the things that also allowed for what happened to me.”

“Poly mainstream discourse is made for the sane of mind. Or at least for an ideal poly person who doesn’t exist. It rarely addresses the experiences of people dealing with mental health issues, suffering from anxiety disorders, panic attacks, C-PTSD (complex post-traumatic stress disorder) or people living with trauma or depression. Poly bibles everywhere are intent on making you face everything: your jealousy, your fear of abandonment, your insecurities. Most of that discourse assumes you can do it as well as the next person. It doesn’t take into account that if you suffer from, say, complex post traumatic stress disorder, you might not be able to use communication standards made for neurotypical people. Or you might try it, and then go on to have an anxiety crisis for six hours — or spend years thinking pain and anxiety are a normal part of being in a relationship of this kind (aka, what happened to me). And if you live to see the next day, the next year, maybe it worked, right?”

Dawn Serra: One other passage that Eve Rickert zeroed in on and responded to, which is the second piece that I’ll speak to in a minute, reads, and these are Ines’s words again:

“I accepted the unease and emotional distress because I thought they were normal. I talked publicly about those feelings and got an immense validation from my community. I thought being in pain was the deal. Suffering was part of it. Like all the books said. I didn’t know that pain is always a warning. Our bodies and feelings know what the deal is before we do. Even if our brains convince us otherwise. Paying attention to what I feel was one of the biggest lessons I learned. Notice whom you’re with when you’re in pain or discomfort. Feelings aren’t random. You’re not exaggerating, being too emotional, too dramatic or too sensitive. Most of the poly literature I read kept telling me I could do it no matter how much pain I felt. It taught me to put bandages on it, to strategize around it, but never to listen to it.”

Dawn Serra: “Poly is very critical of feelings as commodities, of love as a scarce resource. It’s supposed to be something that values love and feeling, but instead it tackles feelings as things to be dealt with and over with. It doesn’t recognize that feelings might be there for a reason. Feelings are not meant to be simply overcome. Sometimes, they’re meant to be felt.”

Finally, one of the closing thoughts Ines shares is this: “I also realised that loving someone is valuing their well-being. Commiting to someone can mean that you won’t always go after every possible relationship, even if you’re non-monogamous. And none of my partners ever did that for me. It took me years to understand that asking for this is not too much. I am not too much. Love is considering your partner’s trauma and boundaries. Love is caring for your partner. If it doesn’t do that, it isn’t love.”

Dawn Serra: One of the patterns that Ines points out in her piece is that this person she was with almost always partners with young women in their early 20’s who are in crisis in some way. Noticing patterns like that is really important. Are we choosing people who are our equals or even who we can learn from in some way? Or are we choosing people who are easier to manipulate, who might need to be ‘saved’? That deserves some reflection and investigation. Ines also talks about how she never thought something like this would happen to her, being in an abusive relationship; because she was a feminist and she was surrounded by other women who were polyamorous and feminist. And that that masked some of the abuse and the ways that she and this person’s other partners actually buffered him from accountability. It was something that she wasn’t able to see until much later.

Again, I’m so happy that she mentioned that all of these behaviors are behaviors that we could see in absolutely any relationship – monogamous, polyamorous, relationship anarchy. That said, as she’s naming, there are a lot of things in mainstream rhetoric around non-monogamy, polyamory, and relationship anarchy that feed into this notion of hyper-individualism and the violence of that. That open the door to gaslighting and manipulation, to believing our needs are more important than anything else. That someone else’s feelings are 100% theirs to manage and not our responsibility. That’s true to a point and we have to recognize our behaviors, the choices we make, the way we say things do impact others. 

Dawn Serra: I’m really glad that we’re starting to see some important conversations starting to emerge like polyamory’s #MeToo movement, with Eve Rickert and so many others. and pieces like this that Ines wrote; that can help us to begin to sinking into what it means to be in community, to be held accountable, to feel a sense of relational responsibility.

As Ines wrote, “Love is considering your partner’s trauma and boundaries. Love is caring for your partner’s well-being, even if that means sometimes making choices that feel frustrating or disappointing around your own personal desires. It’s not about sacrifice, as it is about choice and nurturing each other through the complexities of life.” If you’d like to read the rest of Ines’s piece, which I highly recommend ⁠— it’s pretty long. I’ve got a link at dawnserra.com/ep288/. 

Dawn Serra: I want to briefly also mention, this came to my attention because Eve Rickert who co-wrote “More Than Two”, which is one of the big polyamory bibles, shared Ines’s piece and then actually wrote a piece on her blog in response to it. It’s titled, “What I Got Wrong in More Than Two: The Dark Night of the Soul”.

In this piece, which I linked to in the site for this episode, too, so you could read it, Eve writes, “In polyamory, there is some stuff that we may genuinely want that is, purely because of conditioning that we do want to shed, going to be uncomfortable and that we want to get okay with—and that won’t harm us if we do. I was eventually able to learn not just to accept, but to enjoy seeing my husband hold hands with his partner, or the look of bliss on his face when they kissed. And then there’s other stuff that’s really just not okay—that’s harmful or abusive. Stuff like lying. Keeping secrets. Triangulating your partners. Repeatedly springing decisions on someone that affect them without their input, and gaslighting them when they complain. These are all things that happened to me—and for a long time, I thought it was my fault that it hurt. That I just needed to try harder. The problem is that the social and psychological milieu that is reinforced by the popular poly literature, including “More Than Two”, deadens our ability to tell the difference between these kinds of pain—between the psychic equivalent of a nice, deep stretch, and the pop of a tendon tearing or shoulder dislocating.”

Dawn Serra: I recommend reading the rest of the piece. Eve has been thinking a lot about “More Than Two” and what’s in it, and some of the behaviors that were written about as things to aspire to that are now being revealed as being harmful and opening the potential for some problematic behavior. Again, dawnserra.com/ep288/. You can get links to both of those pieces. I think that it’s important to all of us— all of us to hold that whether we’re hooking up with someone one time, that we don’t plan on ever seeing again or we’re in a long-term committed relationship, and anything and everything in between – we each have a responsibility to interact with other human beings with as much care and respect, as possible. 

No human being is disposable and even if we are both meeting up with the agreed upon intent of just fucking for these 30-minutes and never seeing each other again. My hope is that more and more of us can really start digging into the complexities of how we relate with each other, so that we can do it with real intention. Recognizing the impact that we have on other people, even in fleeting instances, and the ways they carry that impact into other relationships, into their work, into the world. It all matters. Because if we can really, really start being inside of that uncomfortable complexity together, then we can all level up together. So much more pleasure and love and connection becomes possible.

Dawn Serra: Over the past few weeks, I have received two notes from someone named Cathryn that I wanted to share. The first was an email and it reads:

“Although I don’t do New Year’s resolutions, the intention that I set for 2019 was to examine my sexual hang-ups. I’m proud of the work I have done so far, but have a long way to go. Yesterday, I did a Google search for “sex” and “embodiment” and found your website via your podcast episode 250 coming up in the search return. I purchased a platinum package to your EMS videos and I’m only halfway through the first one. Everything you write on your blog and everything you say resonates with me deeply. This series of videos with the workbook is exactly what I had been looking for and I am so grateful to you for putting it together and making it accessible. You have a wonderful energy and I love the work you are doing. Thank you so very, very much.”

Dawn Serra: That was a couple of weeks ago when I was on vacation. Then yesterday, Cathryn actually wrote again via Patreon with this:

“I discovered you fairly recently, but you are exactly what I have been looking for. I absolutely love your podcast and the Explore More videos. In a few short weeks, have had several important insights about myself after listening to you and your guests. Today I was listening to episode 282, and your comments about the flu shot and men who try to get away from wearing condoms touched me to my core. Thank you so much for doing the work that you do.”

Dawn Serra: Thank you so much, Cathryn! It’s great to hear that you found me from a random Google search – that bodes well for my website. Hopefully more and more people find me and this work, and all these incredible people I get to talk to. It’s great to hear that you’ve been working your way through some Explore More talks and the podcast. To everyone listening, you can still get access to past Explore More Summits. If you go to exploremoresummit.com and dawnserra.com, there’s information. 

It’s like a graduate-level course in bodies and relating, and healing. The workbooks are hundreds of pages long. But to you, Cathryn, it means a lot knowing you’re out there and asking yourself all these big questions and wanting to relate to yourself in new ways. I hope that it continues to feel yummy and pleasurable as we move into 2020. Hopefully, you can join us for Explore More Summit 2020. It’s free to attend live. Of course, then you can buy extended access if you want to have more time and see more talks, but that is going to be happening in February of 2020 so definitely stay tuned. And thanks again for letting me know that you’re out there and that you’re being in these questions with me. It means a lot.

Dawn Serra: Sofia wrote in about squirting and incontinence. Here’s Sofia’s email:

“Hi, Dawn. Searching on Google, I found your page and wanted to ask you something since I have not found any answers on the internet. I started doing squirting about 4 years ago with a sexual partner. Occasionally we had sex and occasionally I squirted. I am now in a relationship with another man and we have started doing squirting very often, practically every time we have sex, and I have been with him for about 5 months. Since I started squirting more often I have realized that I am experiencing incontinence— when I sneeze, cough or jump. Could this be related? I assume it could and if yes, what do you suggest I do? Stop squirting or make pelvic exercises? Any help or feedback would be appreciated. Thanks. Sofia.”

Thank you so much for asking this question, Sofia. I reached out to some colleagues who specialize in pelvic health and heard back from several people, and I’m going to share their responses here. I think a lot of you are going to find this really interesting.

Dawn Serra: Heather Raquel, who you can find on Instagram @raquelheather shared with me: “Often incontinence can be attributed to pelvic floor dysfunction/imbalance of muscles, which affects nerve function. I would suggest a pelvic floor physical therapist or specialist who can help determine if the nerves and muscles might be operating differently from usual. It could be a coincidence, but sometimes the learned response of squirting with or without orgasm (often with a squeezing/building of pressure in the urethral sponge) can lead to an over tightening of some of the muscles in the pelvic bowl, which can then potentially correlate with issues like incontinence, because chronically tight muscles are weaker.”

Tracy Sher wrote: “Hi. Pelvic floor specialist here. Yes. In an ideal world, it would be great to know a lot more about this person’s history, age, childbirth history and more. There can be underlying prolapse issues, urethral hypermobility, pelvic floor muscle considerations, etc. and this type of activity, squirting, may be augmenting these dysfunctions. Or, we see some patients who push or change pressure with squirting, creating other issues. There’s lots to consider. It could be coincidence, too, because we see some people have hormone-related stress urinary incontinence. I’d say a seasoned pelvic PT and/or urogynecologist.” You can find Tracy at @pelvicguru1 on Instagram and Twitter and pelvicguru.com.

Dawn Serra: Adding to the conversation, Heather Reich Edwards says, “I’m a pelvic PT. I certainly had a case study that illustrates this. Someone was having stress incontinence and was having big, forceful ejaculations. The big change for her was the changing of the way she ejaculates to and “allowing” instead of a “pushing” like Tracy mentioned.” Something to think about, all of us. You can connect with Heather at heatheredwardscreation.com and @vinoandvulvas on Instagram.

Sex educator Cassandra J. Perry added, “The pelvic PT may end up referring you to a urogynecologist for urodynamic testing. Urogynecologists participate with insurance far more frequently than pelvic floor therapists, so I’d suggest starting with the urogynecologist, particularly if cost is an issue. A urogynecologist will also be able to refer to a pelvic floor therapist as needed, whereas if working with insurance, a pelvic floor therapist can’t always refer a patient to a urogynecologist, especially with HMOs.”

Dawn Serra: All of that was really great information, so thank you to all of them for helping me to field this. I would also, to you Sofia, recommend connecting with Dr. Uchenne Ossai. She goes by Dr. UC. You can find her on Instagram. She is doing some awesome Instagram Stories in educating about sex and pelvic health. She actually spoke at last year’s Explore More Summit 2019, and she talked at length about how both overworked and underworked pelvic floor muscles can lead to prolapse, incontinence, and other challenges. Because both hyper-tense and hyper-relaxed pelvic bowl causes weakness. That’s why Kegel exercises are not recommended for all bodies. Kegel exercises are not recommended for all bodies because overtightening, over-clenching, having those tight tense muscles, which can happen if you’re doing Kegels and that’s not a good fit for your body – can lead to these very issues both Heather’s and Tracy spoke to here like incontinence.

For you, Sofia, I would recommend getting checked out by a urogynecologist or a pelvic floor therapist to make sure your pelvic floor and your muscles and your pelvic health are OK or to see if there’s something happening that might need treatments or some adjustments. If you’re pushing, straining, or tensing as part of your experience of squirting and doing it fairly often, that might be contributing to or causing some of the incontinence by weakening the muscles. It could be totally unrelated, because as we all know, bodies are complicated and nuanced and unique. That’s why it’s worth seeing a specialist so that you can see if there’s something you can change or practice differently, knowing that sooner than later is a great thing. Because it’ll be much easier to work on sooner in the process than later in the process.

Dawn Serra: I hope that offers you some stuff to think about and hopefully it gets you to a specialist who can help you learn a little bit more about your body and what might help to reduce incontinence while increasing your pleasure and your play, and all this yumminess that you’re doing with your partner. Huge good luck. Thank you so much for writing in. I know lots of people who are listening are going to be excited to learn this information.

Dawn Serra: Jose wrote in with a subject line of “Confused”. Their email says,

“Am I the only guy who doesn’t like sex? I love to masturbate and am always turned on. I love having erections and indulging in my sexual fantasies. I enjoy writing about them and turning them into erotica stories. Though I’ve only been with one person sexually, I don’t really get much out of sex. I like the way it feels but I would often rather masturbate. I didn’t start having sex until I was 25. When I was a teen, I’d masturbate to erotic photos and lingerie catalogs. I still am this way. I don’t really go for the “porn” but more of the “erotic” and “sexual” type things. Real bodies, especially curvy/plus size. Most guys would have been having real sex when they were young, I guess, compared to me. And maybe this is part of it. Maybe I started my own habit and that’s why I am the way I am? My partner tells me that she wishes I was more assertive and would take more initiative. She’s always the one that asks for sex. She said that, “I could go the rest of my life without sex and be okay.” Maybe she’s right? Thank you for your thoughts!”

Dawn Serra: Hello, Jose! The short answer to your initial question is a resounding no. You are not the only guy who doesn’t like sex. Although I’ll add that as we heard from the rest of your email, it’s clear you do love sex— it’s sex with yourself and not a partner or partners. There are lots of people in the world who don’t want sex – solo or partnered, who don’t enjoy sex – solo or partnered, and for whom sex isn’t a big part of their lives – solo or partnered. That’s perfectly normal and not uncommon. I think pop culture would lead us to believe otherwise. But, there’s an incredible variety of sexual experiences, preferences, and identities.

It sounds like you have a rich sexual relationship with yourself. You enjoy sex with yourself, you long enjoyed masturbation. You feel aroused often, you consume erotic and sexual material. This is sex. Having a sexual relationship with ourselves can be delicious, fulfilling, meaningful, pleasurable, creative, expressive, and important. It’s not lesser than or not “real” sex. It’s sex with yourself. And what a great thing to find a lover in yourself. Your body is an ever-evolving and changing mystery. There’s so much to get to know, continuously over the course of our lives, if you can stay curious and open to the changes.

Dawn Serra: I also think fewer young men are having sex than you were probably be led to believe. Because sadly, with the rampant misogyny, sexism, and patriarchal values that are embedded in what it means to be a man right now, performing sex is really common and normalized. Lots and lots of young men, particularly but it’s becoming much more common for all genders to do this, because we have this performative sex positivity that’s becoming very normalized. But, lots and lots of young people really exaggerate, lie, and mask the truth of their actual sexual experiences and inexperience. 

It’s normal and common for men to not have partnered sex in high school and college. It’s just that we’ve attached this ridiculous, stupid frankly, stigma to “virginity” and what it means about a person’s manhood, whatever that is. That fear can lead to all sorts of harmful and problematic behavior, because we’re trying to avoid bullying and being ostracized. Belonging trumps everything, even if it means we do really shitty things. 

Dawn Serra: One thing I think is important to hold is the nuance around experience. Sometimes we just know a thing is true for us. Some people know from a very young age that they’re gay or queer or bi or non-binary or prone to depression – whatever it is. We can be gay or queer or trans without ever having had any kind of experience with another human being or out in the world, because it’s an internal way of knowing self rather than something that has to be proven. 

People are just as gay who have never been in a relationship or had sex with someone that shares their same gender than someone who has been in lots of relationships and had sex with lots of people of their same gender. Both and everything in between are valid and real ways of being gay. Experience is not required, other than experience of self. 

Dawn Serra: You, Jose, might be asexual or more maybe towards the asexual side of the sexuality spectrum. You do not have to engage in partnered sex to “prove” it or to know it. It might just be something that you know. Partnered sex is not something that you desire or want or enjoy. I think this is where some of the nuance comes in, there are some things that we don’t like because our first experience or two was disappointing or boring or embarrassing or awkward, or because of where we were at that stage in our life. With experience, with variety, sometimes we find we actually really are into something and that it was we needed a different partner or to have had different life experiences first or to be in different contexts in our lives or to have a different experience with our body before that thing became yummy for us.

I mean, a super simple example would be the first time that I was flogged. I went to a flogging workshop with a friend. It was for lesbians at the leather bar in Washington DC, known as The Eagle. There was maybe 30 of us and we were all taking turns flogging and being flogged, so we could get a sense for the movement and the motions for safety and also how to articulate as the receiver, our limits, what we wanted. Frankly, when I was on the receiving end of that in that workshop, I didn’t really like it at all. My takeaway was, “It’s cool, but I don’t think this is a thing for me.”

Dawn Serra: Fast forward a few years, and in a totally different context with a person that I was really clicking with, where I was able to be with my body in a different way experiencing some really yummy feelings of arousal and anticipation. I was flogged again and holy shit, did that feel good! It was an entirely different experience from that first time. Having that really delicious flogging experience didn’t invalidate everything that came before it, but it did open me up to a whole new reality that didn’t exist for me prior to that experience. It was important, too, that as part of that new experience, no one was pressuring me. No one expected me to be different. I didn’t feel invalid or broken or wrong for not being into flogging. And I tried it from a place of spacious, genuine curiosity that second time. That’s important because so often we try things from a place of duty or obligation or guilt or shame or fear and it’s really, really, really fucking difficult to enjoy something, and to explore the unfolding possibilities inside of something when we’re just trying to get through it. 

I say that because this is not to say you should ever have to try something to prove to someone that you don’t like something. It’s to say that none of us should ever encourage someone to ignore a boundary just for the sake of thinking that this time might be that magical time. This is why it’s so fucking annoying when straight men will tell lesbians, “Yeah but you haven’t had sex with ME!” And they honestly think that’s in any way interesting or hot. That’s not what we’re talking about here. Not enjoying partnered sex and not wanting partnered sex is a perfectly valid way to be. It’s not wrong or bad or abnormal regardless of your gender and body parts. You are not wrong or behind, Jose. You didn’t make yourself like this by masturbating as a young person. If not having partnered sex for the rest of your life feels OK, then it’s totally and absolutely OK. You aren’t alone in that, at all. And if at any point, there’s a part of you that’s curious to try partnered sex with someone else, or with your current partner but in a radically different context, or maybe with a couple fo small tweaks, or maybe you want to conduct an ongoing series of experiments; to find some things that you do enjoy in a partnered circumstance that maybe don’t involve genitals. All of that is OK.

Dawn Serra: I think the question comes down to, would you like to experience partnered sex that feels a particular way or that happens in a particular context? If so, is there a way for you to explore that space and to honor and validate that? If not, great. That’s your truth. As long as you and your partner are able to find a way to be in relationship with each other that feels mutually fulfilling and supportive, then you do not have to change or be different.

If, it’s worth saying, your partner is often trying to initiate sex, desires sex, misses sex, and you can’t meet them in that sexual desire for partnered sex, that might be a place for some exploration and curiosity. I would hate to know that you have this really rich solo sexlife and that your partner is growing increasingly resentful or increasingly ashamed for not getting to be a part of that. If there is something in there that needs attention, would you want to open the relationship, if you aren’t already? Would you two want to create circumstances where your partner got to work with a professional sex worker to get certain needs met? Or maybe being able to really talk about this, does your partner feel OK in having that longing and accepting that it might never be met by you with gusto and enthusiasm? Because that is a very valid and acceptable choice. There’s nothing wrong with all of us really wanting something. And at the same time, holding the complexity that acknowledges that if we were to maybe go in search of meeting this one particular desire, it might put other things that feel more important to us than that desire at risk than to choose to live with the wanting. It’s OK to want a thing and then to choose to let that wanting be true. Because all of these other things are more important at this particular juncture. And it’s okay to change your mind. 

Dawn Serra: For you, Jose, I think what it comes down to is what makes you feel most alive, most connected to yourself and to those you love, what feels respectful to you and the relationships you’re in? How can you find ways to celebrate and honor those truths, even if they buck convention or don’t align with cultural messages of what it means to be a man and or to be in relationship? We can all be delicious erotically expressed, creatively engaged, sensually open, and joyous and getting all of our touch needs met without ever engaging in partnered sex. Because it’s common that many of us use sex as a way to get non-sexual needs met. If you, Jose, have this rich erotic life and it’s working for the relationship that you’re in, it doesn’t need to change.

It sounds like you have a rich, delicious, life with yourself. And that is real, valid sex. Even if you didn’t have a sexlife with yourself and you aren’t engaging in any kind of sexual activity, that’s valid and a real wonderful way to be in the world. Keep doing the things that feel good. Stay open to things maybe changing down the road, because we are always-changing in these bodies of ours, and what’s true now may not be true in the future. Collaborate with your partner on what would serve your relationship and your happiness, both individually and together. And keep savoring the pleasure you give yourself. It’s real, valid, sex. I hope that was helpful. Thank you so much for writing in, Jose, and for listening to the show!

Dawn Serra: Breast Distress wrote in about breast distress. Here’s what they wrote:

“Hey, Dawn. I’m a longtime listener and appreciate the lenses with which you approach these topics—not easy to find in the sex advice world but so important. I would love to hear your thoughts on a new dynamic I’m experiencing in my sexual and romantic life. I am a cis queer woman. I recently started connecting sexually and romantically with another woman in my community who is also married to a cis-dude. We are navigating the dynamics of our relationship agreements right now, which seems to be pointing toward more sex in the near future (yay). We have fooled around in bed and I slept over last night, though we haven’t done our full on STI check in yet so haven’t gone into genital touch… Though there’s been a lot of other yummy touching and kissing, which brings me to my question.”

“Last night we fooled around topless and breast play was a big part of our connection—the only thing is she has much larger breasts than I do or than anyone that I’ve been with before. I noticed for myself some anxiety and discomfort arising from feeling the texture and weight of her large breasts on my body and in my hands. Then felt guilt arise in my body for those feelings about a new partner’s beautiful body. I’m also super unsure how to touch them well, in a way that would be pleasurable to her, and also how to physically do so in a way that is possible for my hands and mouth that are only so big. Help! Any advice for queer sex with big breasted/chested folks, and to help me learn to love and enjoy her breasts as much as I desire to as we connect in the future? With appreciation, Breast Distress”

Dawn Serra: Breast Distress, Thank you so much for listening to the show and for writing in, and for your kind words. It sounds like you have some yummy new frontiers that are about to open up. So WOOHOO for that! You probably already know what I’m going to say. As always, the simplest answer to your question is to simply ask her how she wants to be touched. What brings her pleasure? Then to explore that together. To give yourself the opportunity to get to know this new body that is new to you and to let yourself be awkward about it for a while. It’s new! It’s different. You don’t have to know how to do the things right away.

Your partner and only your partner knows what it’s like to have those breasts— what parts are sensitive, what parts she doesn’t care for, what positions feel sexy, and what positions or handling feels clunky and embarrassing. I’ve known people over the years with large breasts who were miserable with their breasts. They indentations being carved into their shoulder bones from the weight of their bras, comments from people on the street about their chest, clothes that never fit, being fetishized in ways that feel nonconsensual and yucky, having numbness or a lack of sensation in the nipples. And I’ve known people with large breasts who love their breasts and love having them touched and jiggled and nibbled and who can orgasms from nipple play, and everything in between.

Dawn Serra: You can talk to 10 different people with large chests and get 10 different responses about the ways that they like to be touched. Because every single body is unique and you know that. When you are dealing with large breasts, there’s a couple of things. And truly, larger bodies in all shapes and sizes. The first is, don’t be scared of them. It might be new, it might be different. It might be something you’ve never encountered before. But often people who have either larger bodies as a whole or certain parts of their body that are larger than a lot of other bodies, it can hurt when you find someone who’s scared of your body or timid around your body. So instead, finding a way to get really excited and curious, I think, can go a really long way.

Also, many people with large breasts will tell you that certain positions might not be as comfortable because breasts can ride up and kind of choke you or get caught under your body. Or having them hang in a certain way might not feel really good. So a big part of this like anything we’re new to, especially when it’s sexual in nature, having a sense of humor, being open and curious in any sexual encounter is a great thing. Because awkwardness is inevitable, and when we know that and embrace it, it can become endearing and playful. It sounds like the two of you are really off to a great start of something that’s really delicious and pleasurable and fun so, how can you bring some curiosity around her body?

Dawn Serra: If I were you, I’d ask her directly about what touches she loves most, how she touches and holds her breasts, when does it feel comforting, when does it feel erotic and arousing. Ask her favorite sexual memory of someone touching and playing with her breasts, ask her what she’d love for you to do. Ask her to show you if you aren’t sure what she means. Let your curiosity be the thing that’s arousing. It’s not about your skill or knowing what to do. This is true for every single one of us, regardless of the body we’re in. I could sleep with a hundred people who have bodies that look virtually identical and a hundred of them would be different from each other in all these small and big ways.

The curiosity to get to know, to delight in, to discover— that’s where we can find all kinds of delicious memory-making and pleasure. It’s not about whether or not I have the skill, it’s more about, do I have the attitude and the energy? She is well aware of the size of her breasts, so isn’t going to expect you to fit more in your mouth than is biologically possible or to be able to do more with your hands than they possibly can. She knows the size of your body parts as much as she can see the size of her body parts. And will know how to work with that. 

Dawn Serra: Beyond what she offers you is her answers and her truth, what would help you to feel endlessly fascinated and curious? What happens when you slowly kiss your way around the outer curve of one of her breasts? What about when you run your fingers so, so feather-lightly in that super sensitive spot underneath her breast that’s always hidden and tucked under other flesh? What happens when you blow on a nipple while she dangles it just out of reach of your mouth as she stands above you? Where can you touch her to get a gasp or a giggle or to make goosebumps happen? When she’s a little turned on and not quite aroused yet, what would make her moan with relaxation versus what makes her moan with arousal when she’s super turned on and close to orgasm? 

There’s so much to discover here. Instead of thinking about the things you can’t do and aren’t sure of, how can you turn that around into this child-like delight of getting to know this landscape and all of this flesh? It’s also OK to ask her, “Do you enjoy nipple stimulation? If so, what kind and when?” Some people might say, “Oh, I really like pressure on my nipples,” or “I like pulling on my nipples.” But that’s not specific enough. Because I can tell you that at a certain point in the arousal process, pulling on nipples is probably not going to feel very good. So, get more curious and experiment. 

Dawn Serra: I mean, I am very up front about not really enjoying nipple stimulation very much with my partners because I would much rather someone concentrate their touches and kisses on parts that feel really yummy for me and that’s not it. She is the expert in her body. I would encourage you to enlist her help in finding ways of touching, holding, massaging, kissing, caressing, and enjoying. Not only her breasts, but all of her, in a way that works for the both of you. Maybe she loves a vibrator on her nipples. Maybe she likes nipple clamps. Maybe she likes having her breasts restrained and held tightly against her body, so that she doesn’t feel the weight of them as much. Or maybe she likes having them in rope and tied really tightly. Maybe she’s just “eh” about breast play. The breast play that already happened was more a function of the fact that you weren’t engaging with genitals more than anything else. There’s so many things to ask and to discover.

Allison Moon wrote a fun and very practical article for Bustle a few years ago. I’m going to link to it at dawnserra.com/ep288/ so you can check it out. It’s called 14 Tips for Sexy Breast Play. There’s a lot of yummy little things in there that you might be able to then turn into some questions. And you can make those questions really flirtatious and sensual and sexy. It doesn’t have to be like a sitdown interview type thing. Being able to ask one or two questions in this particular instance and then a few more questions in this particular instance, and just slowly getting to know each other, can be a really fun thing. 

Dawn Serra: There’s so much opportunity here: so ripe, so rich, so juicy! If you can just find ways to tap into some of that curiosity around the newness, what’s it like for you to hold her massive breasts in your hands as you stand behind her or to reach up and to have all of this skin to gently caress, maybe if you’re ever going down on her? If she was covered in oil, what would it feel like to slide against her large breasts with your own body as you rode her thigh or used a vibrator on herself? You don’t have to be good at the thing or know all the things and try to figure it out on your own. It’s OK to be a little unsure, surprised, even thrown off by this new experience. That’s normal when we encounter something new to us. It sounds like you are a little bit like, “Whoa, I have not encountered breasts like this before. They feel heavy, they feel different.” And to feel a little bit foreign about that. 

Ask questions and you can make them as flirty and as sexy and as hot as you want them to be. Think about what it would mean to really delight in all of this flesh and to know it in new ways. And to get to experience her reactions. Delight in the differences of your body. Maybe watch some feminist porn featuring performers with larger breasts, just to see the different ways people move and touch each other. I would highly recommend starting at CrashPad as a jumping off point. Let her guide you until you have a better understanding of the things you both like. She knows herself, her pleasure, and her breasts better than any book, article, website, expert, or video. And the best part is, she WANTS to be doing these things with you. Use that desire to be with you, to increase both your knowledge and your pleasure. I hope that offers you a little permission and some ideas of where to start, Breast Distress. It sounds like you got a really great foundation. There’s just a little bit of an opportunity for some more curiosity here. But I hope that lots more fun, delicious yumminess is ahead of you. Thank you so much for writing in and for listening. 

Dawn Serra: Patrons, this week’s bonus is me answering a listener question about first time sex, being virgins, face fucking– All from the same person who is not only about to have partnered sex for the first time but who wants to do it condomless, and to do a face fucking to boot. You can tune into the question and my answer at patreon.com/sgrpodcast. If you support the show at $3 per month and above, you get weekly exclusive bonus content you won’t hear anywhere else like me answering this question. Again, that’s at patreon.com/sgrpodcast. 

That’s it for this week’s episode. I’m taking the next 2 weeks off so I can be with family and prep for the New Year. So, I’ll be airing Explore More content and some other stuff, so not to worry – you’re going to have episodes to listen to as you travel. You might not be new, but they’ll be fun. I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful end of 2019 and an even better New Year. I will be back with new episodes starting January 5th, 2020. And please, be sure to send in your questions – dawnserra.com. I want to hear from you so I can fill the new year with all kinds of goodness from you. yummy stuff to listen to as you travel and do your holiday thing, as well. Until next time, I’m Dawn Serra. Bye.

Dawn Serra: A huge thanks to The Vocal Few, the married duo behind the music featured in this week’s intro and outro. Find them at vocalfew.com. Head to patreon.com/sgrpodcast to support the show and get awesome weekly bonuses. 

As you look towards the next week, I wonder what will you do differently that rewrites an old story, revitalizes a stuck relationship or helps you to connect more deeply with your pleasure?