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I’m sure you heard on last week’s show, but I’m reminding you again. I want YOUR voice as part of the new podcast intro. All you have you to do is call 747-444-1840 and say “You’re listening to Sex Gets Real with Dawn Serra.” BOOM!
This week is a fun chat with The Butters All Natural Lube creator and sex educator Jerome Stuart Nichols. We talk about lube and creating your own sex stuff, being a sex educator, STIs, and we answer two listeners questions.
One of those questions absolutely broke my heart, so I was very thrilled Jerome could join me to help field it – how can a Black man with a smaller penis ever hope to find confidence and a lover who is pleased with is body? The racial stereotypes about penis size and the masculinity myths we are all drowning in can create a toxic situation for so many of us.
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In this episode, Jerome Stuart Nichols and Dawn talk about:
- Jerome’s new lube, The Butters, is what he created after being disappointed with all of the lubes he has reviewed over his 7 years as a sex educator. Plus, the cost of some lubes makes them too pricey for some folks. Dawn sampled it on number occasions and weighs in with her experience.
- The joys of internal condoms and why they’re amazing. Jerome is a huge fan, which gets Dawn ridiculously excited.
- How difficult it is to advertise as a sex educator or sex manufacturer because sex isn’t allowed on social media advertising or Google.
- The STI booklets that Jerome created for real people in real situations on how to talk about and navigate STI conversations. He is re-releasing them with updated information for things like Zika in the next few months, but you can see the original version from 2013 here.
- Jerome’s experience with chlamydia earlier this year and how all of us are swimming in the shame around STIs. Jerome jokes about how chlamydia was way easier than having the flu. STIs are so common and Jerome is on a mission to create social ambivalence around STIs the same way we feel about the common cold or the flu.
- PrEP, the HIV prevention pill, and Jerome’s experience with his doctor’s ignorance. Unfortunately, we need to be more educated about sexual health as patients, because our doctors are not getting the information that they need in order to serve us.
- Jerome’s directory of sexuality experts of color and how many amazing educators, therapists, and sex workers there are who are POC. To check out his directory, visit LTASex.com.
- A listener question about pubic hair removal on a cis male – where can he go to get waxed, since most spas and salons only do these services on vulvas? He is constantly getting razor burn and ingrown hairs, and he really wants to be hairless. Jerome’s suggestion is fantastic, and it never would have occurred to Dawn.
- Prone to ingrown hairs when you shave? Jerome recommends the single-blade Bevel razor which is perfect for combatting that.
- A single black man with a smaller penis needs help – he has so much shame about his smaller penis, especially as a Black man when the cultural stories are Black men have huge penises. He can’t talk to women and has been terrified of sharing his body. Jerome offers some advice.
- No one gets to be disappointed in your body – whether you’re fat, thin, small dick, big dick, or whatever. We all deserve people who appreciate us for who we are and the kind of body we bring to the table, and if someone doesn’t appreciate your body, then fuck them. They don’t deserve access to you.
About Jerome Stuart Nichols
Jerome Stuart Nichols is the creator of LTASEX.com and The Butters All-Natural Lubricant, among other things. His overarching goal is to help people live better, sex better, and love better. He enjoys a wide variety of geekery, creative ventures, and bending a willing submissive boy over his knee.Listen and subscribe to Sex Gets Real
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Episode Transcript
Dawn Serra: Hey, everyone, Dawn Serra here with Sex Gets Real. Don’t forget that Wednesday, October 26, I am hosting an online workshop all about anal. It’s me live teaching you all about anal pleasure, anal anatomy, anal sex, how to get started with it, how messy is it really, and you can attend from anywhere in the world. So even though I’ll be doing it live at 8pm Eastern in the U.S. and Canada, if you sign up, you’re going to get access to a 24-hour replay, which means whether you’re in Asia or Europe or Australia, you’ll have a chance to actually be a part of this workshop. There is going to be a Q&A with questions, and I want to see you there – having fun and laughing right along with me as we talk everything butts. To sign up go to dawnserra.com/butts – that’s butts.
Don’t forget I want your voice as part of the new podcast intro I’m working on. All you have to do is call 747-444-1840 from a very quiet location with a really solid connection, and say, “You’re listening to Sex Gets Real with Dawn Serra.” If you speak another language, feel free to replace the word listening with that language that you speak, because it might be fun. If you have another sexy statement that you want to throw in, please do that because it’s going to be a great big mash up of all different voices and inflections, and I think it’s going to be a really fun way to get you as part of the show. So if you want to hear your voice and potentially be part of that intro, then just call 747-444-1840. I will see you October 26 online so that we can all talk about butts. Here’s the rest of the show.
Dawn Serra: Joining me this week is Jerome Stuart Nichols from LTA SEX, and creator of The Butters, which we’re going to be talking about today. So welcome to the show, Jerome.
Jerome Nichols: Hello. Thank you for having me on.
Dawn Serra: Oh, you’re so welcome. So, Jerome, you are the creator of LTASEX.com and The Butters All Natural Lubricant. The thing that I so much love about your bio is it says that your overarching goal is to help people live better, sex better, and love better; and that you enjoy a wide variety of geekery, creative ventures, and bending a willing submissive boy over your knee. There’s so much goodness and those two sentences. I mean, live better, sex better, and love better, and then all the geekery goodness – that’s all delicious.
Jerome Nichols: Yes.
Dawn Serra: There’s a lot of things that we’re going to talk about today. I’m really excited about some listener questions. But one of the main things we want to talk about today is this lube that you’ve created that’s called The Butters, which I have some and I’ve put it in all the holes and all the places.
Jerome Nichols: How’d you like it?
Dawn Serra: I actually really, really liked it a lot. It’s so smooth and silky, and it feels it feels very natural. It feels like I feel when I’m really aroused and wet, which I really like. It’s got this really nice, wet slickness to it that doesn’t feel tacky at all like water-based lubes can sometimes feel.
Jerome Nichols: Which I hate so much.
Dawn Serra: Me too. There’s nothing worse than using a lube and then it starts to dry out and gets tacky, and you’re like, “This is like the antithesis of why I’m using you”
Jerome Nichols: I’m like, this is basically like sandpaper at this point. I’m not a fan anymore.
Dawn Serra: Right. I was so excited to get the sample and it’s one of those things where you know something awesome is coming in the mail and as soon as you get it, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing but do you take your pants off and run to the bedroom?
Jerome Nichols: Absolutely.
Dawn Serra: So yeah, I was really excited to try it. I was so pleased with how it felt. I literally have used it in all the holes and it works wonderful for, so far, all the things that I’ve tried it on. So I would love for you to tell everybody a little bit about it. What prompted you to decide, “I’m going to make lube, damn it.”
Jerome Nichols: I’ve been writing LTA SEX for a while now, about seven years, actually. I think. Yeah, it’ll be seven years in February. Through that time, I’ve reviewed a ton of lubes and I’ve never actually been long term satisfied with any of them. They work well for a while, but then after a while you start using it. It’s like, “Oh, this is not as slick as I want it to be,” or “It doesn’t taste quite right,” or something. There’s usually something off about it. I was sick of paying 1.) so much for lube and 2.) not even being satisfied with what I got. Because if I could find something decent at a higher price I’d be okay with paying it, just give me something good. But I played around because I needed something for my hair and I needed something for my skin, and I was really interested in something that could do all three.
I come from this Alton Brown school of cooking – I’m a trained chef. The butter is essentially like frosting for the skin. It works really, really well for both the skin and for the lube purposes, because it gives you a coating of slickness – the shea butter and the palm oil, and all those natural oils that I use in there.
Dawn Serra: Just to put it out there for everyone, to make sure they know, because there’s oil in this lube. It’s not latex safe which means you can either opt for a latex-free barrier, if you’re using barriers, or use it for all the things that don’t involve latex.
Jerome Nichols: Exactly. One of the things I’ve been pointing out to people is that you can actually use the internal condom with these because those are latex-free. I love the internal condoms. They’re so much more comfortable to use. If you can afford a little bit of a price hike, I say go for that.
Dawn Serra: I’m so excited to hear you say that because I like wax poetic about internal condoms all the time. But I haven’t had a cis guy actually say, “I enjoyed this too,” other than my partner. So I love hearing that you find that condom enjoyable and delicious, because I’m constantly telling people, “Have you tried it? Have you tried it?”
Jerome Nichols: People should!
Dawn Serra: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is a little bit more expensive. External condoms tend to run $1 a piece and these usually run $2 a piece but if you really like them, you can buy them in bulk. But yeah, you’re so right. It’s latex free. It works on all the holes. It’s a totally different sensation for folks who have an attached penis.
Jerome Nichols: Absolutely.
Dawn Serra: So the butters can literally be used for moisturizing your skin. How do you use it in your hair? Like as a styling gel?
Jerome Nichols: No, you can actually just use it like a leave in conditioner. My partner, he’s white, and has thin fine hair and it works pretty well for him. He says to control the amount he puts in, I use a lot more because my hair is thicker and curlier. But it’s really great.
Dawn Serra: That’s amazing. I love that you’re a trained chef because I am an amateur chef and at some point I’m going to win Masterchef.
Jerome Nichols: Of course.
Dawn Serra: So I love that you’re using this skill that you have to use science and experimenting, and creating something that really works for your body. That’s fantastic.
Jerome Nichols: Thank you.
Dawn Serra: Yeah, what has been the response so far to the lube?
Jerome Nichols: So far, I have been surprised actually with how much people like it. I create things a lot. I’m a very creative person, but there’s been very few things that I’ve done, where the response has been almost universally positive. It’s been really exciting to get that and experience all of those talents I’ve built up over the years coming together in lube and moisturizer and, and, and…
Dawn Serra: Yeah. So what’s your vision for the butters? Do you have plans for other kinds or different versions? What does that look like?
Jerome Nichols: Yes, yes. So right now I have the butters which is oil-based. But I understand that some people can’t use that. Some people don’t like soy. Some people don’t like palm. So I’d like to be able to offer– I hate to use the word but like bespoke versions for people, as well as offering versions that are soy free. I’ve been trying to figure out one that is all aloe-based without having to go glycerin. The closest thing I can think of right now is a mucus-y texture, which is good because that’s natural lubrication, but how do you accomplish that? That’s the question.
Dawn Serra: That’s so exciting. I actually love the idea of custom lubes because, to me, that would be actually such a fantastic gift to give a partner or a lover of, “I know these things don’t work for you. Guess what? I had a custom lube made just for you, and it’s amazing.”
Jerome Nichols: Exactly. That would be great!
Dawn Serra: Seriously, I would be over the moon if someone did that for me.
Jerome Nichols: People don’t like scents or they don’t like flavors, they don’t like this or that. If you could get your own custom lube like the butters is unscented and unflavored. But I could definitely get some essential oils, I could get some sugar-free food flavorings that would be perfect for internal use – all that sort of stuff to make something really cool.
Dawn Serra: The first thing my mind went to when you said essential oils was like, “If someone wanted to be deliciously sadistic, they could have you add a mint oil or something so that it would be tingly.”
Jerome Nichols: Oh, yes. That would be great.
Dawn Serra: Yes, your bits are tingling and they’re going to stay that way for a long time.
Jerome Nichols: And also they’ll taste good and be minty fresh, right?
Dawn Serra: Right! What fun adventure to go on, just deciding to do this and create it, and to have it be realized.
Jerome Nichols: It has been exciting. This is my first product, I guess you could say. I’m really, really happy to see it out there and see people using it and enjoying it. I sponsored Onyx, which is a black, gay leather community. They have chapters across the country. They had a long beach leather competition last weekend actually. I had sponsored them with some lube samples. I was just thinking this weekend, people are going to get fisted and massaged, and loved and they’re going to be using my lube. That’s so cool!
Dawn Serra: Isn’t it amazing?
Jerome Nichols: Yes!
Dawn Serra: I love that you’re like, “Ah, people are going to be getting fisted with my lube.”
Jerome Nichols: It’s exciting. I’m so proud.
Dawn Serra: Yeah, you should be because there’s some really shitty products out there. I think one of the things that never ends as a sex educator is every time I go to teach a workshop and there’s new people in the workshop; and so many of the questions that I get on the podcast from new listeners is people don’t realize how terrible so much of the lube is that’s out in the world. So to be able to have an affordable option that feels so awesome is really exciting. I love that with 3D printers and with this entrepreneurial spirit that you have, people are starting to be able to really create things that work for themselves and then share that with others versus having to turn to the CVS and the Rite-Aid’s of the world to buy sugar heavy sticky lubes. They’re expensive and don’t really do great stuff.
Jerome Nichols: I absolutely love how take charge people have become, especially here in America since the financial downturn – people have been creating more, they’ve been doing more, they’ve been taking more initiative with both their life and their care, because they have to. We’re starting to realize as time goes on that no one’s going to do it if we won’t. For things of sexual health, that’s something that we actually have to put a lot of effort into. Because not only are there very few people doing it in the mainstream, but you can’t really have a store that sex based on any normal financial chain. You can’t really have it on any “normal social network”, so it’s hidden away. So that makes us have to work hard to even get the word out and do the things to help us succeed in the bedroom and out.
Dawn Serra: I don’t know that most people realize how difficult it is to be an educator, an entrepreneur in the sex realm as far as the limitations that we’re constantly facing of not being able to run paid Facebook ads or Twitter ads, or Pinterest ads. I can’t even run Google Ad Words if what I talk about is sex. Literally, the only way to get the word out is through networking and word of mouth, and putting out something that’s great so that people share it. So for you to really take on this adventure and for it to be such an awesome product is really exciting.
Jerome Nichols: In the time running LTA SEX, I’ve come into three of those big stumbling blocks. I had Google Ad Words canceled me, because LTA SEX talks about sex. Apparently there’s absolutely no advertiser in the world that’s okay with doing the one thing that is most likely to create more consumers. I’ve also had Squarespace, which is my web host, tell me that I couldn’t have certain content on my website. They didn’t want actual sex even if it wasn’t in porn, but nudity’s okay. Then recently with the store, I had to switch from having a store directly on LTA SEX to putting it on my main website jeromestuartnichols.com. Because Square, the payment provider, is also objects to the content level and I’m like, “Why are you making it harder?”
Dawn Serra: Yeah, it’s such a challenge. It’s definitely an uphill battle that I think a lot of people don’t realize. I think because the internet is for porn, everyone assumes that getting access to good information about sex must be really easy and getting it out there. And it’s really not. It takes a lot of perseverance and creativity.
So you mentioned that you’ve been doing LTA SEX for seven years. I’d love to know, what are some of the things that you’ve created over the course of those seven years with LTA SEX or some of your favorite topics that you’ve created videos around or written around?
Jerome Nichols: Two of my favorites that come to mind. There was the series of videos that I did for a show called Let’s Talk About Sex. The show, not itself, wasn’t short lived, but that sort of format was short lived. The other thing was a booklet of STD facts. It was everything you need to know about STIs, which is what I changed it to after terminology changes. It was just these single page documents that told you exactly what people in the real world needed to know about the sexually transmitted infections. I’m going to actually release an update sometime in the next couple of months, which is going to include things like Zika and the flu, and some of the more non-traditional infections that you can get through sex and how to prevent them.
Dawn Serra: That sounds like a really fascinating project and definitely something that I know a lot of people need access to. Because I think information about STIs tends to be either super, super medical or like word of mouth friends talking, and there’s not a lot of stuff in between that’s factual and important. But also really accessible and easy to read and understand, and it feels like it was written for you. So that sounds really cool.
Jerome Nichols: Yeah, it’s one of the most academic facing projects that I’ve done. I actually have the PDF available for people for free to download and use in their classes, and print out and do whatever they want with. I can actually send that link over so you can put it on if you’d like.
Dawn Serra: Oh, yeah, that would be awesome. Thank you. Yay for STI information. I try to talk about STIs and I had Sarah Miller on the show recently talking about herpes. I get so many emails from people who have either recently found out that they have herpes or HPV or they are interested in dating somebody or a friend got it and they just don’t know how to have these conversations. There’s so much shame and misinformation. So, I would love to be able to share that with everyone listening.
Jerome Nichols: Yeah, you know what? Let’s talk about this for a second, okay? STIs are a very interesting situation. It’s been one of my personal goals in life to add that ambivalence to STIs the way we have with most other infections. So I got gonorrhea this year, actually chlmaydia, this year through having some great sex. It was an interesting experience for me because I had not had that happen before and I hadn’t had any STIs.
I had what turned out to be a scare, and that brought about a bunch of different feelings which I talked about in the YouTube videos I mentioned earlier. But actually experiencing it and the pain that it causes. The experience is totally different, but I always said that it was a lot like the flu. I’m wrong. It’s not like the flu. It’s easier. It hurt, don’t get me wrong, and it stung a little bit. But the flu, I’m dead – I’m in bed for a week or two. But this, it was two days of antibiotics and I was done. I have not had any other problems. I wish things were this easy to cure.
Dawn Serra: Yeah, that’s the thing. Most people aren’t actually scared of having the bumps and having the itch. It’s not the actual infection. It’s the stigma around the infection. It’s having to go to a doctor and have those embarrassing conversations, and then potentially getting judged. It’s having to tell a partner and potentially they break up with you. It’s like having to come out when you’re dating. People are afraid of the social aspects of STIs and I think the actual fear around the infection itself, and the symptoms and the experiences is something most people don’t actually think about. It’s like, “Now I have to tell somebody that I had this experience,” and because our sex negative culture is so eager to be like, “Oh, you must be a bad person, you must sleep around.” There’s all these moral judgments. But I love that you’re sharing this and I think you’re so right.
We have so much ambivalence around getting colds or getting flus. Those things happen because we’re in spaces with other people who have that infection and then we catch it because they coughed or they touched something, and we’re not socially ostracizing folks for spreading their cold.
Jerome Nichols: Exactly. I really, I really don’t think that we should be doing it for anything at all – no sicknesses, not STIs, not mental illnesses, nothing. One can’t really help what their body does. We’re all walking around in bodies that are constantly dying. We’re doing our best here.
Dawn Serra: Yes, exactly. No matter how many precautions you take, you can certainly avoid getting a cold or the flu for years and years and years at a time. But there’s still going to be a point in time where no matter how many precautions you take, no matter what kinds of foods you eat, no matter how little you go out in public, that you’re still going to, in some way, have some type of encounter with a disease or an infection. The same goes for STIs – you can take all these precautions and potentially avoid it for a really, really long period of time. But the latest CDC data says that if you’re sexually active up until you’re 60, then 80% of us are going to end up with something.
Jerome Nichols: Absolutely. I avoided it for 28 years. It’s not as if like me being the sexually liberated person that I am, is somehow leading me to get more STIs. In fact, this situation where I got chlamydia was with a partner with whom had been to the doctor, had been tested, but their medical professional failed to test anally for chlamydia, because it was a cisgendered boy. Of course, what would a cisgender boy be doing having anal sex? That doesn’t make sense to his provider, at least. And that ended up with me having a problem in my penis. All it would have taken was an extra five minutes on a cotton swab, and we could have prevented all of that.
Dawn Serra: Yeah, I’ve encountered ignorance from the medical community in similar ways. I was talking to a new OBGYN about birth control options for me, and she was making recommendations without asking me, at all, about my situation. Her assumption was that I was monogamous and in a long term relationship, and making recommendations based on those assumptions. At no point did she ask me, “Do you have multiple sexual partners? Do you have multiple people in your life that are all having sex with other people?” I had to actually stop her at that point, because I had multiple partners at the time, and say, “Will this work for me if I have multiple partners that I’m engaging in sex with?” She literally didn’t know how to answer the question, because it never crossed her mind that might be the case.
Jerome Nichols: Of course, it hasn’t.
Dawn Serra: It really struck me of – we have to be able to advocate for ourselves and ask better questions, because at least at this point, doctors don’t have the information or the access to even know how to have these conversations themselves.
Jerome Nichols: Absolutely. You would think that they would, because a lot of doctors do spend their lives being re-educated – learning the new techniques, learning the new medications. But I wrote about PREP – pre-exposure prophylaxis, which is like a pill you can take daily to prevent HIV. I wrote about the trials on LTA SEX in maybe 2012-2013 – something like that.
In 2015, I go to my doctor, after it’s already been FDA approved and on the market for 18 months, two years, and she has no idea what I’m talking about. I’m like, if I wasn’t educated, if I didn’t know, not only would I’ve not been able to go and ask for it, but it would have never been offered to me. We’re talking about a pill that can prevent HIV 100% in trials. That is amazing and completely culture shifting. We need to be getting the word out about these things to our doctor so that they can get the word out to everyone else who’s not being able to hear us because we can’t buy Facebook ads.
Dawn Serra: Right, exactly. Yeah, I’ve had similar challenges around being fat and hormonal birth control, and that so many doctors will offer hormonal birth control or talk about taking Plan B. But the thing is all of those medications have been tested on people who are 175 pounds on average. So if you’re heavier than that, there can be a much higher chance of hormonal birth control failing you.
Jerome Nichols: Especially Plan B, specifically.
Dawn Serra: Yes, exactly. Especially Plan B, specifically. Unfortunately, so many medical providers aren’t even aware of that. So then there’s all kinds of unintended pregnancies happening because those conversations aren’t had. It’s definitely an epidemic.
Jerome Nichols: It’s one that we need to be addressing quickly.
Dawn Serra: I totally agree. Speaking of experts, one of the things that I totally love that you have on LTA SEX is this sex positive directory for professionals of color. Can you talk about that a little bit because some of the names that you have in this directory are amazing people doing amazing work.
Jerome Nichols: Right, okay. I have been running LTA SEX for seven years, as I said. In that time, most of the people I’ve come across have been women, and they’ve also been white. When I say women, I mean cis women, my apologies. It’s very, very hard if you’re outside of that particular demographic to find someone who suits you. I wanted to find people who were black, and I had to search a long time to find people – more than a handful. I feel like that should not have to be the case. Because if we are really wanting to expand the world of sexual health education and really get this information out to people, then we need to be connecting, not just with people who look like us, but we need to be connecting people who don’t look like us with people who look like them.
The sex positive directory for professionals of color directory features not just black people, it’s anyone of any color. It’s meant to help people find sex professionals, whether it’s a blog or a doctor, a nurse practitioner, a doula that is aware and educated with LGBTQ issues, or queer issues, as I prefer to say. People who are knowledgeable about polyamory, people who are knowledgeable about – people who are pregnant and have HIV – all these sorts of little incremental things that really change the way that we see, view, and experience the world. It’s crucial for that to happen.
Dawn Serra: I totally agree. I think one of the things that’s so powerful about your directory and, of course, I’ll link to this on sexgetsreal.com/ep131 for this episode, so everyone can go check it out. But you’ve got people on there who are prep educators, you’ve got master fetish trainers, therapists, surrogates. You’ve got Shine Louise Houston, who runs Pink and White productions, which I talk about that porn all the time.
Jerome Nichols: They’re amazing.
Dawn Serra: I know they’re so amazing. Coaches, and educators, and journalists– I mean, there’s such a wide variety of stuff out here that people need access to. So I really hope everyone will go check it out. Because there’s so many people doing so many amazing things. It’s just hard to get those voices out into the world because of everything that we were talking about earlier. I really adore so many of the people that you’ve got on your directory in the work that they do. So it’s fantastic you’re creating this resource where people can dig around and roll around and see what’s out there, and who might be a good fit for what I’m working through.
Jerome Nichols: Exactly. If you are a sex positive professional of color, please make sure you add yourself. Don’t hesitate. As long as you’re actually sex positive, I am very open to putting anyone in that directory, because I really want– Just like my focus with the butters is to help people have sex better and moisturize better. It’s like with the sex closet professional color directory, I want people to heal better and birth better. I can’t do everything. But there are people out here doing amazing work and I want to help them connect with one another.
Dawn Serra: I want everyone to go check it out so that if nothing else, even if you’re not looking to hire anybody to work with anybody right now, you know about these folks so that you can tell your friends or so that you can make recommendations to people in your lives or your family.
Jerome Nichols: Or if you’re a journalist and you can stop interviewing the same five people.
Dawn Serra: Yes, exactly. And get some new voices out there sharing all of their expertise and their knowledge. One of the most amazing things right now is your latest addition is Jetsetting Jasmine. I’m assuming that they use female pronouns or she/hers?
Jerome Nichols: Yes.
Dawn Serra: Okay, so her picture is so fucking fierce. You open this directory and there’s this beautiful, beautiful person in the strappy underwear and bra. You’re like, “Of course, she’s a master fetish trainer.” I mean, holy crap. She’s fantastic.
Jerome Nichols: I was so happy to see her in my email. I was like, “Oh, my God! You wouldn’t be in my directory? Thank you, thank you.”
Dawn Serra: I have a number of listener questions that I thought we could roll around in, knowing about your background and all the things you’re interested in. So if you’re up for it, I’d love for us to roll around.
Jerome Nichols: Let’s roll around. Let’s get going.
Dawn Serra: Okay. So this first one is about pubic hair and cis guys. I’m hoping that you might have some ideas so that we can spit ball this one. Fasty wrote in and it says:
“Hi, Dawn. I’m a listener of your podcast. I have a question that you may be able to help me with and I know that you’re going to see this question. So, you may have gotten this before, but I haven’t heard you answer it. I need help with pubic hair removal. I’m a 29 year old cis male, I’m bi, but in a monogamous relationship with what I consider the perfect woman. I’ve been with her for nine years. And yes, there’s pegging. I know that you like that.”
It says, “I know that shaving pubes is something that women generally get down much earlier than most guys, and that most salons are willing to wax a vag before a penis. But what about us, men? I’ve trimmed or shave pretty much exclusively for the past decade, but my skin is sensitive as hell. I’m always getting razor burn and ingrown hairs no matter what shaving method I use. So what are your thoughts? I don’t want to go back to only trimming because I definitely prefer bald. But I’m not sure if I’m the only guy suffering from this, if salons will see me, and the few times that I’ve tried myself, it hasn’t gone well and I end up with bumps. Thank you, Fasty.”
Dawn Serra: So, pubic hair. Do you have experience with pubic hair removal on your own body?
Jerome Nichols: I have limited that throughout my life, but I do know a great solution to this particular problem. At first I was going to say if he’s up for not going bald, I would prefer that he trimmed, because you have pubic hair for a reason. It will help you stay cleaner down there. It also smells good and feels soft, if it’s moisturized and taken care of properly. But I understand some people don’t exactly want that, so he wants to be bald. The best thing I would suggest that he do is find his local gay yellow pages and look up a person who does waxing in his area. It may not necessarily be a gay person who does it, but they may do gay men in the area. They may do sex workers, they may do anything like that, where they would have a bit more experience dealing with not only the male body, but helping you figure out how to prevent all those razor bumps and things. Because that should not be happening in this world where we have all these great and wonderful products that can get your baby bottom clean.
Dawn Serra: Yeah, I love that suggestion so much of finding either gay yellow pages or some type of gay directory or finding out where folks in your community go – where there’s practitioners who are comfortable with all bodies and who aren’t solely servicing cis women. Because you’re so right. There are, for sure, in any major city: barber shops and salons that cater to gay men and would absolutely be able to help with, not only shaving your pubic hair, but getting your ass waxed or you’re ass bleached – all the things that people are interested in for a variety of reasons. So that never occurred to me, and I am so glad I let you answer that question.
Jerome Nichols: If you’re if you’re not in an area that has one of these gay places, which there are lots of places that don’t. You can also try a Korean spa. Asian men tend to be more okay with waxing since they tend to be hairless to begin with. So it’s a thing that they’re comfortable doing to stay hairless. It’s also having to deal with youth a little bit. You’ll often find Korean spas that are capable of doing it. You might also want to avoid maybe the highest of high end spas, because those are mostly going to cater to women wanting a very specific sort of thing. If you can go to a chain of places that do it, they might also be more capable of doing it, because men tend to be more practical in their shopping practices, and go places where the guys go.
Dawn Serra: Those are really fantastic suggestions. Because I go back and forth. Sometimes I shave, sometimes I goe full blown bush. It just depends on my mood and how I’m feeling. What’s interesting is I spent so many decades feeling like if I didn’t shave, then I would be somehow disappointing my partner because I felt like the cultural expectation was, of course, you shave it bald, that’s what everyone does. Then I had this like, “Fuck that noise. I can have pubic hair if I want to!” Now that I have it, you’re so right, the silky smoothness and it feels so good and tugging on it – it’s a whole new level of sexual pleasure that’s not there when it’s bald. Oh my god, it’s delicious. But I totally get also wanting to choose that for yourself.
Jerome Nichols: Yeah, absolutely. One thing people might not think about when it comes to shaving their pubic hair, is that if you have a little bit of pubic hair there, it creates a space gap for oral sex so that you can breathe a little bit better. If it’s skin to skin, it’s going to be a more airtight seal around your mouth. So you’ll have to back up a little further and that can change the flow of the sex and I’m like, “I’d rather just go for it if I can.”
Dawn Serra: “I’m going all in.”
Jerome Nichols: Exactly.
Dawn Serra: Fasty, I hope that helps. I would definitely say one of the byproducts of shaving is going to be skin irritation if you have really sensitive skin. I have really sensitive skin so I have to really take care to make sure I take a warm bath and my pores are nice and dilated, and the skin is super soft and use a really high quality shaving cream and the whole nine. But I would love to hear the results of you looking for a gay salon or spa or something like that, because that was such a smart suggestion from Jerome.
Jerome Nichols: You can use The Butters for that sensitive skin stuff. Not only will it heal, but it’ll prevent the skin from being so sensitive to ripping in the first place. It’s a pretty good shaving cream. Razor-wise you might want to check out this company called Bevel. They specialize in razors for people with coarse and curly hair, pubes tend to be coarse and curly. It’s a single blade razor and it gives you a very, very, very nice clean shave. I use it on my face. I am very prone to razor bumps because I have curly – the curliest of curly hair that humans have. I can get lots of ingrown hairs but with the Bevel system, I don’t.
Dawn Serra: Oh, another excellent suggestion. Okay, well, I will have that information on sexgetsreal.com/ep131 for this episode. So anyone who wants to check it out can find it nice and easy. So I got this question from someone who calls themselves Fear-shame. The email is a little longer but I think it’s important to read the whole thing. It’s one of those emails from when it came in, it just broke my heart. So I wanted to be able to help this person but I feel like I’m not a person who can speak to this. The subject line is “Smaller black man feeling shame and fear.” Here’s the message:
“I know as soon as you read the word smaller in the subject line, you might let out a sigh of exasperation, ‘Not another one of these again.’ I’m sorry, but I hope you’ll humor me. I’m a black guy and I fall far short of the stereotype. I’ve listened to your Episode 73 and 51. Those were the only ones I could find with ‘small penis’ in the name. The level of understanding and empathy you have on this issue is amazing. I’m really trying to get better, but I’m so afraid of women and how they will judge me. I thought I have to be proactive. So I accepted an invitation from a female friend for an event. I got to meet some of her friends and acquaintances, and one of them seemed really cool. I talked with her more hoping that there might be something there and she seemed really responsive. But somehow the conversation turned to penises. She went on and on about the wonders of “baby arms”, and everyone reacted with oohs and ahhs, and ‘Wow, amazing’, at her reference to an eight-inch long, thick dick.”
Dawn Serra: “By this point, I was in the corner trying to fake a smile and I had completely given up my pursuit. My heart was racing and I felt nothing but shame and fear running through me. I don’t know how to overcome this. I’m so afraid of women. I know you said we should flip the script and be confident, focus on all the things that we can do to satisfy women. But as soon as I heard that reaction to the long, thick dick and how much they desired it ,and how much it seems to make all the women wet with their panties – my bravery and confidence melted and I was just afraid and shameful again in the corner. So I want to be better.”
“I’m reading a book called She Comes First by Ian Kerner. I’m hoping that will compensate for my smaller penis. I want to feel confident and secure. I know that’s the destination. I just don’t know how to get there. As a black man, I’m supposed to feel strong and confident. We’re supposed to be the living embodiment of strength. Big dicks are our thing, our pride, except for me. Mine is my shame, like there was this big black dick party where they were all handed out and I got left out. I think about how good they must feel to have their manhood, their identity as men, be praised and almost worshipped. How proud, how strong, how masculine they must feel to have their manhood affirmed. How amazing must that wide-eyed gasp and look of awe be when they drop their pants. They’re considered real men in a way I can never be. They even said there is a case in Nigeria where a woman got divorced because her husband was too big. The woman I talked to said that that guy must be so proud. He must be strutting down the streets telling everyone who is too big for his wife. Even when it’s too big, it’s something people praise. I’m sorry for going on so long. There’s no one I can talk to about my feelings on this. I just wonder how I can ever achieve the same feeling of sexual strength and masculinity. I remember the look of disappointment from my only sex partner. It’s been years now and I’m in my mid 20s. How would you want a smaller black man to act? How can I give the feeling of masculinity and strength in that hearing about a big dick gives you? Thanks.”
Dawn Serra: So a lot of feelings.
Jerome Nichols: I understand where he’s coming from. The idea that black men are supposed to have these big dicks, it comes from a false hood, 1.) and 2.) There’s also this history of black male bodies, specifically, being put on display. So you see them and they’re flaccid, and they’re just dangling there. And they look different than white penises. They look different than X, Y, Z. If you see and if you’re breeding, essentially, which is what happened to black men during slavery, they were bred to be huge, gigantic men. But that’s not the natural state of humans. We vary a lot from person to person. So the reality is, everybody is not going to be Mr. Mandingo. In fact, the truth is, studies after study after study has shown that most women are more satisfied sexually with a partner with a smaller dick. I can tell you, as a person who’s had penis inside of me in multiple locations, I prefer an average or smaller dick. Big dicks are cool, they’re fine, they’re great, but they are not actually super pleasurable, unless what you’re after is the feeling of being punched in the diaphragm.
Dawn Serra: Right.
Jerome Nichols: Which is dope. Everybody wants to climb Mount Olympus once or twice. But on the daily, the sex that you can have with any random penis – I mean, even down to half an inch is probably more pleasurable, than you can have with the shame and any big dick, any normal dick. My dick is maybe six inches and I used to fear a lot that my dick was “too thin”. But then I actually started having sex with people who enjoyed me and the sex that we had. Then I realized, “Oh, wait, if you won’t date me or you don’t want me because you think my dick is too small, you don’t actually like me at all. Fuck you. Because I deserve to be with somebody who sees me, loves me, and appreciates the body that I have, and not the idea that they want in their head. You are dating a human and not an ideal.”
When you’re going out there and meeting women, and if they’re looking disappointed – no, no, no, no. Because you don’t deserve that. You don’t deserve people to be disappointed in your body. What kind of mess is that? That’s ridiculous. If anybody ever did that to me, I’d be like, “I’m pulling up my pants and you can go to hell.”
Dawn Serra: “Because I’m going to enjoy my self by myself.”
Jerome Nichols: Exactly! I have to say, where are these people getting these measurements of dicks? Who do you know walks around with a tape measure to measure a dick? Most of the time, they’re just guessing. So if she said she had eight inches, she probably had a solid six that felt really great. I honestly think that if you got more practice in learning how to please, not only other people but yourself, you might develop a sexual power, a sexual confidence, because you got to practice it. It’s not something you’re going to get and it’s not just something you’re going to figure out. I had to fuck a lot. Then I figured it out. It feels good to be that strong, to be that powerful. But it can’t just come from the size of your dick. Because if you don’t have rhythm, you’re not going to be great. Ask any woman who just started pegging and does not know what they’re doing yet.
Dawn Serra: Yep. Takes practice.
Jerome Nichols: Exactly. But once you get your stroke up, basically, as long as you like the strap-on, it’s going to be okay, right? So I’m pretty sure the same thing works with penises. And those are real, and they have blood flowing through them, and they swell and they’re hot, and they taste really great. Semen tastes good. That comes out of basically any penis, right? There’s lots to love there – no matter what you have and no matter what size it is.
Dawn Serra: Yeah. I’ve said some version of this before in the past, but it’s definitely worth repeating for all of us and all of our bodies. I’m in a fat body and I’m still trying to unpack that fear that I have around the fact that I’m supposed to be thin to be sexy. It’s an ongoing journey to unpack and confront those stories. So many people out in the world are living out the stories and the scripts that they’ve been told they’re supposed to live out. So, I think so much of this size being a thing is important – when you’re heterosexual and the sex that you’re told you’re supposed to be having is penis and vagina sex, size can seem important. Because if no one’s touching your clit and no one’s putting fingers inside you, and no one’s doing anything else to your body and you have a vulva, then size might be one of the only ways that you actually feel some pressure on your clit or that you feel something happening in your body.
The thing is when you start having sex with people, and I’m speaking from personal experience, when you start having sex where there’s fingers involved, mouths, and toys; and you’re really focused on pleasure and less about playing out that penis and vagina heteronormative script, sex gets so much better and penis size genuinely doesn’t matter when you have 50 Different options and penis play is one of those options. But I know that it’s really hard to live that when you’re not actually getting affirming experiences that support what you and I are saying here. We can sound like talking heads and this person is in tremendous amounts of pain and shame. So it can feel like there’s this huge gap between what we’re saying and their lived experience.
Jerome Nichols: Right, absolutely.
Dawn Serra: I super get that, but I think you’re so right, Jerome. The first couple of times that I put myself out there to have some sex with folks after I came out of 13 years of lesbian and trans relationships. So it’s my first time hooking up with cis dudes in a really long time. The first couple of people I hooked up with, I was fucking terrified and ashamed of how my body looked, and my tummy, and my stretch marks; and convinced that they were just having sex with me out of desperation rather than because they actually liked me. And that wasn’t a terrific feeling. But what I learned through being willing to put myself in that situation was that no, they actually were enjoying me. We were having really fun sex that felt really good, and they weren’t running away screaming, or looking at me with disappointment when my clothes came off.
I had to start retelling myself new stories about what sex looked like in my body. That does take a little bit of courage, but I love what you’re saying about fuck anyone who looks at your body with disappointment. That person doesn’t deserve you.
Jerome Nichols: Not even in the slightest.
Dawn Serra: No, not at all. You might run into assholes who do that and that can hurt really bad when it happens. But no, that is not the majority of people you’re going to encounter. If you’re talking with people who are decent and nice, and seem interested in you, when the clothes come off – the likelihood that they’re going to say something or look at you with disappointment is small.
Jerome Nichols: I want to step back for a second and put a little bit of actual instruction in here, because you mentioned that there can seem like a distance between what we’re talking about and what he’s actually experiencing. I understand that in life, so well, as I’ve had to do that with being black and then dating white people, with being fat and then dating people who are thinner than me, with being not particularly described as traditionally masculine, I’m very happily gay. So that softens my edge a bit. All of these things make me feel different. They make me feel less than or at least they did. I figured that if I was going to actually get through these issues, then I was going to have to be a bit bold about taking on the problems.
The first one I actually did was my weight. I wanted to lose weight, but I also was like, “If you want to fuck me when I’m thin, and you didn’t want to before, you will never touch my body ever.” So I felt that if I was going to lose weight and then love my body, then I would be required to love my body as it was. Because if I’m just loving my body because it’s thin, I’m actually not loving my body. I’m loving that I fit in. That’s not enough. So what I did was I started to take pictures of myself naked – fully naked. It started with selfies that work their way down from being face to chest, to camera on the tripod, completely science anatomical pictures to being like a full on art set of photos that I was like, “Wow, I’m cute. I’m this, I’m that.” I like the way I look at these photos with my stretch marks, with my baggy arms, with my three different colors of brown skin. I don’t mind looking at this.
Jerome Nichols: For him, one thing he can do is start taking pictures of his dick. He doesn’t have to show them to anyone, and he can delete them right afterwards. But he needs to be able to see what other people see when they’re face to face with it. Looking down at your penis, it is a different experience than looking at it face on. If you are four feet away from it, standing up or even sitting down, you’re getting four feet of difference, four feet of light shrinkage. So you never actually get to see what you’re dealing with. You can feel it in your hands, you can do whatever. But until you actually get that first hand experience, you don’t know what you’re working with. So try taking pictures of yourself. Try and make your penis look cute. Take a shower, take out the extra pubes, get nice and moist so you don’t have an ashy penis. Take pictures and make it look the best it can. Then you’ll see that you actually have something cool down there if you give it some love. That’s part of the reason why you may not feel love towards your penis is because you’re not giving it any love. So it’s not showing you any respect. You have to love your body for it to pay you back in that way.
Dawn Serra: Yeah, or at least have some type of invitation for a dialogue versus just disgust..
Jerome Nichols: Exactly. You cannot look at your body like it’s intrinsically flawed and wrong, because it does not match up to a single standard. There are 7 billion people on this planet and I guarantee you that the vast majority of them do not fit whatever rule they have for themselves. So you have to learn what your body is and how it is. Then as you get a little more brave, you can maybe start a Tumblr, start a Twitter – it doesn’t even have to be under your real name. Put some hashtags under there and look at the amount of people who will like and reblog, and thirst after your dick. Even though you don’t think it’s that great. You would be surprised. I weigh 400 something pounds and I put those pictures of myself online – tons of likes. People following me telling me I’m pretty, telling me I’m this and that. I’m like, “Yeah, you’re right. I am. Thank you. Thank you so much for helping me see what I couldn’t see. Thank you for being open to my body and for you know, even just objectifying me,” which in some ways is totally fine if what you’re trying to get is a feeling of sexual power. If what you like is that I’m a gigantic black dude, that’s fine as long as you also see that I’m a person, because me being a gigantic black dude is part of what makes me sexy.
You having your penis, you having your skin color, you having your hair texture, you having your different muscles, the way your body is shaped – all these different things about you make you sexy. You can find that through photos, through videos, through getting reinforcement from yourself, and then branching out to get reinforcement from others. It also gives you practice with dealing with people who are like, “Ugh, ain’t nobody want to see that. Ain’t nobody want to read your ugly text so go somewhere, bye.”
Dawn Serra: Absolutely. I think something else that is super easy to forget because we’re all so entrenched in our own stories and experiences, that we can also forget that when we’re with someone who’s sharing their body with us, they have just as many insecurities as we do. So I love this suggestion of taking pictures and learning how to embrace yourself, and even getting to a point where you share it with others. Because there’s so many people who are going to look at Fear Shame’s body and see something beautiful, and wish that their body looked like his in some way. Whether it’s the narrowness of your hips or the shape of your hands or whatever it is. I mean, there are going to be people who feel deep insecurity about some part of their body and can look at your body and genuinely say, “Wow, I wish my hands looked like that,” or “I wish my fingers looked like that,” or “I wish my legs were that strong,” or whatever it is. So leaving space for the fact that everyone has these insecurities even though shame makes us feel like we’re the only one, that’s how shame works. In no way are you the only one.
I’m so glad that you brought up, too, the history of black male bodies on display, and breeding, the ways that black men still to this day are really only valued in very specific ways so that they’re consumable – the certain types of bodies for sports athletes and for porn stars, and for rap stars and things like that. And that’s such a tiny percentage of the actual experience of black male bodies, but we’re allowing these controlled narratives, to then tell us how black bodies should look. That’s super fucked up and causes so much pain like this person is experiencing.
Jerome Nichols: I have a feeling from the way he describes his experiences, that he might be dating people outside of the black community. And that can be a different experience as well, because not even white people, but people who aren’t the darkest of dark, can have this different experience from darker people where it’s very, “You are that one thing. I can’t relate to you in any other way, except this one thing. And that’s fine. I enjoy that thing about you. But it’s going to scare me to learn anything else.” That has to be something that he’s aware of. Because you have to understand why they’re doing that, why they’re talking to you like that, why they’re coming up to you. It will help you find more peace with your situation in the world, because you’ll be able to have a sense of control in any situation.
I find for myself that in situations where I don’t understand, it’s the ones where I’m most anxious. It’s the ones where I’m most scared. It’s the ones where I end up making bad decisions or backing away into a corner and being socially awkward. But when I know that this white dude who I’m hooking up with tonight is looking at me and talking to me in a certain way, I know why he’s doing that. I can say, “This is not what is going to happen. What’s going to happen is this for me, and this is my body, and we can go ahead and discuss this ahead of time so that I can watch Law and Order if you have a problem.
Dawn Serra: Yeah, exactly. I just want to share one other quick thing. So Jerome and I are part of a group that’s for sex educators. I had posed this question in the group, and a few women who are also sex educators had weighed in and shared things like if you’re at a party, and there’s a group of women who are all going on and on about the amazingness of big dicks to pay attention to the women who may be standing there but aren’t actually participating. Because there’s inevitably going to be those women who don’t agree with the conversation, but want to be part of the party atmosphere. So they’re sitting there sipping their drink, maybe smiling, but they’re not actually participating in the conversation. So look for those people.
A couple of other people commented that they have all been partnered with black men who didn’t have great, big, gigantic, stereotypical horse cocks. I mean, there’s definitely people out there who aren’t going to look at you and only want to be with you based on the size of your penis. So leave space for the fact that there are people out there who can fall in love with your body exactly as it is, you have to allow people to love you and you have to allow people to love your penis. Because if you reject that, then you’re putting yourself into this horrible fear-shame spiral over and over and over again.
Jerome Nichols: I would also cautioned him to start to build relationships with people before he has sex with them. Because you can often weed out people who only want you for your big black dick, or big black cock is something that is another turn of phrase that you should watch out for. Because that’s a very, very white word for cock. It signifies that that person might be coming from a more, let’s say, monochromatic background. It would give you a signal to say, “Oh, okay, this person is probably not looking at me like a full, full human, because they don’t have experience with people like me.” They speak a different language. They have a different emotional understanding of what it’s like to be who I am. You can determine these things better, the longer you spend time coming to know people. If you’re going to a big black dick party, honestly, most of what people want there is to be fucked by black guy. Because it’s exotic and weird, or not weird, exotic and special. It’s shocking, and it probably pisses off some white guy somewhere.
There’s certain psychological things in there that you’re actually getting from having sex with a black dude, rather than actually just it being a big black dick.
Dawn Serra: I love those suggestions. I love those suggestions. I think they’re really important and hopefully, Fear Shame., you feel like there were some suggestions in here that can help you to start letting go of the anxiety that you have. And just know that you have lots of time – you’re in your mid 20s to meet people and have these amazing experiences. Really, it’s up to you to start believing that there might be a possibility that you could enjoy your penis exactly as it is.
Jerome Nichols: Absolutely.
Dawn Serra: So we are over our hour, Jerome.
Jerome Nichols: Really?!
Dawn Serra: I know, right? It flew by.
Jerome Nichols: Oh cool.
Dawn Serra: I would love for you to share with everybody where they can find you online.
Jerome Nichols: Okay my main site for people who listen to the show would probably be LTASEX.com . Those are just letters LTA SEX dot com. That’s where I have my blog and that’s where you use to be able to buy the butters, but you can go to LTASEX.com/thebutters, and it will just redirect you over to the proper site to buy it. You can find me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr – @notjeromestuart. Stuart is STUART. Other than that, jerome@LTASEX.info if you want to email me about anything – all my stuff’s pretty simple.
Dawn Serra: Awesome. I will have all of the links to everything that you just mentioned on sexgetsreal.com/ep131 for this episode. First, I want to thank our listeners for writing in with these questions. I want to thank you, Jerome, for being on the show that just flew by.
Jerome Nichols: Thank you so much for having me on.
Dawn Serra: Yeah, you’re welcome. Thank you to all of you who have tuned in. Of course, if you have any questions or stories you’d like to share, you can submit those to me on dawnserra.com, there is an anonymous option. Also, be sure you’re following Sex Gets Real on Twitter and Facebook, where I share all kinds of articles and tidbits including the picture of when I got the butters in the mail and I was off to masturbate. So yeah, thank you to everybody who tuned in. I will talk to you next week. Bye.
Jerome Nichols: Bye!
Dawn Serra: Bye!